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Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)
http://forum.surecutsalot.com/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=43004
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Author:  klkitchens [ Sat May 26, 2018 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

Posted some of this on Facebook group, but sharing here as well in case someone official has an official answer. :)

Did my first attempt at PNC calibration. As noted in the documentation, I did the Resolution Calibration first. Did a 10" square and with the pen and voila... got a 10" square!

Next I followed the instructions for PNC calibration. Printed the four arrows with the registration marks. Set the pin in the first one correctly and then swapped for the blade (same holder of course). Scan worked on the first one, then couldn't find the second one (RED LIGHT!). Tried several more times. Same result.

Gave up.

Then went to cut something that I'd cut the previous day just fine and now the X-calibration was all messed up. Project had not changed (and before PNC, the 10" square was correct). Y-calibration was still 1.0, but now the machine/SCAL thought I needed about .878 for the X-factor. Everything was cut too long in the X direction. So after futzing with that back and forth, I got my project to now cut correctly. Nothing was wrong before PNC attempt, but after, it just messed up.

So realizing that the PNC had messed up the X calibration, I thought tonight I'd try to PNC again... since that was probably was the second registration was not seen, it was looking too far over.

And I was right!

So now the registration marks are getting seen correctly. Yay!

However, in the attempt to get my cutter working in proper proportion the night before, I'd "Set Defaults" on the Edit Values screen to restore that back to normal.

So it read "-36.7, 7.225mm" -- Wowza.

When I did my test PNC, the cuts were WAYYYYYY off. In fact, they were too low by 34.5mm and too left by 7.9mm.

So I spent time clicking arrows (that should be fixed, BTW -- let us enter the values please!!!!) Over 1300 clicks to set the up value!!! But I did, I got them all correct. Hit APPLY, then hit SAVE and repeated the cut on a new sample.

Registration marks scanned and it cut in EXACTLY the same place as the previous one! When I went to the screen to get the values, they'd reset to the old ones "-36.7, 7.225mm"

So I'm giving up again for the night.

I'm hoping someone can direct me to a reset option... Can I remove the cutter and readd it perhaps to SCAL to get this back on track.

I don't know what messed up my X-Y calibration in the first place with just doing the PNC setup, but boy did it.

Author:  SandyMcC [ Sun May 27, 2018 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

I"m sorry you're having so many issues with getting the optic eye calibrated. For starters, what are your current sizing calibrations now? For sure, having one set at 0.838 would never be correct. The cutters are not that for off. Typical range would be from ~ 0.995 to ~ 1.005.

Also, the reason it's important to do the sizing calibration before the optic eye calibration is that if you change the sizing values, the optic eye one will be modified to compensate. Now this doesn't mess up the optic eye one, however because I suggest people record their calibrations, it can be confusing if they see it has changed in the software. So, that MAY be what happened here.

For that reason, now that you have your sizing calibration back to the numbers that give you perfect sizing in regular cutting, I would suggest starting over with the PNC calibration and do that intial pin test again. That will get you must closer to your target numbers and, hopefully, you won't ever have to 1300 clicks again! I'm with you on that one. There should be a way to adjust those quickly when larger changes are needed. :)

Author:  SandyMcC [ Sun May 27, 2018 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

One more thing... make sure you are only using ONE computer while calibrating for PNC. I explain that later on in the PNC chapter about what to do if you need to use a second computer but, for now, just use one.

Author:  klkitchens [ Sun May 27, 2018 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

SandyMcC wrote:
I"m sorry you're having so many issues with getting the optic eye calibrated. For starters, what are your current sizing calibrations now? For sure, having one set at 0.838 would never be correct. The cutters are not that for off. Typical range would be from ~ 0.995 to ~ 1.005.

Also, the reason it's important to do the sizing calibration before the optic eye calibration is that if you change the sizing values, the optic eye one will be modified to compensate. Now this doesn't mess up the optic eye one, however because I suggest people record their calibrations, it can be confusing if they see it has changed in the software. So, that MAY be what happened here.

For that reason, now that you have your sizing calibration back to the numbers that give you perfect sizing in regular cutting, I would suggest starting over with the PNC calibration and do that intial pin test again. That will get you must closer to your target numbers and, hopefully, you won't ever have to 1300 clicks again! I'm with you on that one. There should be a way to adjust those quickly when larger changes are needed. :)



I cannot reiterate repeatedly or emphatically enough that the exact steps that happened ARE the exact steps I cited.

I don't know what the range is for the Resolution Calibration. I just know that based on the steps in the manual that IS the number I had to use to get it back to cutting normally.

Out of the box, it cut normally and just fine. No adjustment was needed.

ONLY after doing the initial attempt at PNC calibration did the resolution calibration get off. ONLY. I did nothing else.

I already did (as I previously stated and as you suggested) the PNC calibration again AFTER I got the resolution calibration working. That is the current state when I posted this (it cutting way off) after reading the registration marks just fine.

I know it's easy for people to assume a novice is asking the question, but I'm not a novice to cutting or computers. I'm a very technical person. The only things that possibly make sense are the machine is defective (for some reason) or the software is.

But to make sure it's clear. I will repeat.

  • Opened the box. Cut fine.
  • Started PNC calibration doing the Res Calibration as suggested. Cut fine. Perfect square.
  • Did PNC calibration -- Something in the software (not me or my hands or anything) altered the resolution calibration so that the PNC step could not find the second registration mark (did not know this was the cause until later when I gave up on PNC and just tried to cut something and it was off).
  • Did resolution calibration again and discovered X needed a 0.878 adjustment. Not my choice, that was the math. After this it cut fine. Perfect square.
  • Since the X alignment was now fine, did PNC again and since it now was adjusted for being "off" it found the registration marks this time... but cut was way off the "mark".
  • Kevin gets VERY frustrated with his first KNK experience. :(

No second computer is being used.

Author:  SandyMcC [ Sun May 27, 2018 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

I'm so sorry this is happening and I'm very willing to help in any way that I can. I certainly don't mean to argue with your experience. I can only assist you with a process that might resolve the problem. If you don't want to try the steps below, then feel free to start a Support Ticket with KNK USA and I'm make sure it gets assigned to Chad who can then call you sometime next week. I'll have him read your posts so he understands what happened to you.

Please note that I'm the one at KNK USA who primarily did all of the testing, reporting of bugs back to SCAL and to our factory engineers, verification of fixes, documentation, and then had others at KNK USA verify that the calibration procedure worked as stated. Since that time, back in March/April 2017, I've helped a few dozen people personally resolve their issues with PNC calibration and then proceed forward using it. Many other new ZO owners were able to calibrate without any help. So, there very well could be something else going on. I"ve not personally tried starting fresh with calibrating my ZO since the last SCAL4 update was released. This is something that I will gladly test tomorrow morning just in case somehow a new bug got introduced into the software. Sometimes that DOES happen... one thing gets fixed and it causes something else to break. Because the owner of SCAL has been actively working on getting the Orbitizer working, it's possible that it somehow affect PNC. I did just now think of one more thing... in the Cut Settings window, make sure that Mode is still set to Normal and not to Orbit or Cylinder. Those settings ONLY apply when using the future Orbitizer.

So, this is what I will be doing tomorrow morning:

(1) I will return my sizing resolution to 1 and 1. Then I'll follow my steps in the UM to draw a 10" square and make adjustments until it is exactly 10" x 10". I typically use Origin Point mode when doing this.

(2) I will then print out several sheets of arrows with reg marks.

(3) I'll use the pin in my blade holder and the procedure in 11.03.4 to establish a reset of the ZO calibration.

(4) Then I'll use the procedure in 11.03.5 to tweak that calibration until I get perfect results.

Thanks for you patience! I will report tomorrow morning either way.

Author:  SandyMcC [ Sun May 27, 2018 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

Our afternoon plans got changed to evening, so I was able to redo my calibrations from scratch using the latest 4.072 versions of SCAL4. Everything calibrated back to my recorded values so I didn't come upon any new bugs.

Author:  klkitchens [ Sun May 27, 2018 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

SandyMcC wrote:
I'm so sorry this is happening and I'm very willing to help in any way that I can. I certainly don't mean to argue with your experience. I can only assist you with a process that might resolve the problem. If you don't want to try the steps below, then feel free to start a Support Ticket with KNK USA and I'm make sure it gets assigned to Chad who can then call you sometime next week. I'll have him read your posts so he understands what happened to you.


Sorry if I'm coming across as cranky... I know helping online is difficult and you cannot see what I'm seeing...

But I'm willing to try anything to get it working again.

SandyMcC wrote:
in the Cut Settings window, make sure that Mode is still set to Normal and not to Orbit or Cylinder. Those settings ONLY apply when using the future Orbitizer.


Mode is set to normal.


SandyMcC wrote:
(1) I will return my sizing resolution to 1 and 1. Then I'll follow my steps in the UM to draw a 10" square and make adjustments until it is exactly 10" x 10". I typically use Origin Point mode when doing this.


Did this.. In fact last night (after I posted) I deleted my cutter from SCAL and readded it. It set it back to 1 and 1 on its own.

Just did a square. I chose 250mm because mm are more precise for adjustments.

My 250mm square drew at 284(x) by 250(y).

So 1.0 * 250/284 = 0.88028169014084507042253521126761 (0.880)

Redrew the square with 0.880 (x) and got 250x250mm square.

Note: Blade offset which was .30mm auto adjusts to .34mm with change in X value.

SandyMcC wrote:
(2) I will then print out several sheets of arrows with reg marks.


Done.

SandyMcC wrote:
(3) I'll use the pin in my blade holder and the procedure in 11.03.4 to establish a reset of the ZO calibration.


Done. No issues.

SandyMcC wrote:
(4) Then I'll use the procedure in 11.03.5 to tweak that calibration until I get perfect results.


Going to skip this at the moment... The first cut (again as last night) was 34mm below the arrows and 7mm to the left.

I don't have it in me to click the up arrow 1300+ times again tonight.

The values displayed in the "Edit Values" screen as of now are -36.800, 6.975 mm

Some ideas (have not tried them).

1. What does the reset button on the side of the machine do? Just reset network stuff like a router or reset the entire machine?

2. Should I try to redo the firmware update? I still got a 10" square the first time I went through all this AFTER doing the firmware. So doubt it's that... something in the PNC calibration hosed things up.

3. Uninstall SCAL completely? I installed the new version over the expired trial version and then entered my key. Perhaps the software is messed up? Functional but perhaps corrupted install?

4. Do the calibration settings calibrate the machine (write settings to the machine) or just store the values for SCAL to use when generating the commands it will send to the machine? In other words SCAL doesn't actually update anything on the machine itself, simply keeps the configuration for its own use for that machine?

5. The Cutter window keeps returning to WYSIWYG mode even when I change to Origin Point. Is this normal?

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Author:  klkitchens [ Sun May 27, 2018 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

Tried switching to USB mode (just in case)... no difference.

Author:  SandyMcC [ Sun May 27, 2018 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

Thanks for doing these tests. I will try contacting Chad tomorrow morning, even though it's a holiday. Sometimes he's online. The fact that one of your calibrations is SO far off of the normal range makes me think there's a mechanical issue with the cutter. Please go ahead and start a new support ticket so I can reference it and I'll make sure he's fully aware of everything you've tested to date.

The button the right side of the ZO just resets the wireless connection settings. However, because the PNC algorithm for the ZO is mostly programmed in the firmware, resinstalling the latest firmware would be a reset of sorts. However, it still doesn't explain the resolution issue.

I'll post back as soon as I have something new to share. Thanks for your patience and please know that we WILL make sure everything is resolved to your satisfaction.

Author:  klkitchens [ Sun May 27, 2018 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Initial PNC Calibration Issues for the Zing Orbit (bug?)

SandyMcC wrote:
Thanks for doing these tests. I will try contacting Chad tomorrow morning, even though it's a holiday. Sometimes he's online. The fact that one of your calibrations is SO far off of the normal range makes me think there's a mechanical issue with the cutter. Please go ahead and start a new support ticket so I can reference it and I'll make sure he's fully aware of everything you've tested to date.

The button the right side of the ZO just resets the wireless connection settings. However, because the PNC algorithm for the ZO is mostly programmed in the firmware, resinstalling the latest firmware would be a reset of sorts. However, it still doesn't explain the resolution issue.

I'll post back as soon as I have something new to share. Thanks for your patience and please know that we WILL make sure everything is resolved to your satisfaction.



Ticket created... 15382

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